What is the difference between a personal statement and a cover letter? | Q&A

Can I use AI to write my application? Qualification or experience - which is most important? How much weight is given to my online presence? All this and more in our latest Q&A

Participants

• Emily Slade - podcast producer and host, Ä¢¹½ÊÓƵ»ÆƬ
• Sally Brown - careers adviser, UEA 

Transcript

Sally Brown: A cover letter. If you go, CV, cover letter. A CV will say, can you do the job? Do you have the necessary skills? The cover letter will be, do you want the job? Why do you want the role? Why do you want to work with this organisation? And then maybe two or three paragraphs about your key skills.

Emily Slade: Hello and welcome back to Future You, the podcast brought to you by graduate careers experts Ä¢¹½ÊÓƵ»ÆƬ. I'm your host, Emily Slade, and this week is another Q & A, and I'm joined by Sally Brown, hello.

Sally Brown: Hi there. Lovely to be here.

Well, it's lovely to have you. Would you like to tell us who you are and what you do?

Sally Brown: Yeah, sure. So I'm Sally and I'm a Career Advisor at UEA. I sort of work with all students if they want to come. Want to come and see me for one to ones some graduates. I primarily, at the minute, work with science students and medical students. But yes, all welcome.

Emily Slade: Lovely, and you're here today. We're gonna basically look, we've got some questions in front of us. The high production value of this tupperware is filled with questions all about CVS applications.

Sally Brown: The exciting world of CVS.

Emily Slade: The thrilling world of CVS. Okay, so some of these have been sent in by our listeners, and some of them have not. So this one has not. What advice do you have for candidates who are looking to work abroad?

Sally Brown: Well, that is a good one. I suppose. It depends if they are sort of a UK national and wanting to move abroad, or whether they're international already and wanting to go back. So let's assume it's the first one. First of all, there's loads of websites out there that gives you a real good breakdown of the job market, because, unfortunately, every country has a different rule when it comes to writing CVS. Some want photos, some not. Some at one page, some not. And even like the layout and what you would put in the sections all very different. What you'd put in a cover letter. Style of writing in a cover letter, it's all very different. Some might also want it in like, the native language of the country, right? Some if they're a UK company that happens to be abroad, they might want it in UK format. So there's lots of questions to ask. So how do we find the answers? So yes, a nice Google search will tell you lots of basic stuff. But to be perfectly honest, it's good to start connecting with people who are working in the country that you're intending to work in. Okay? So let's say I want to move to Brazil, right? Lovely weather compared to the weather today, which is a horrible. But you, you know, you don't know what it's like. You don't know how to do it. So if you got yourself a LinkedIn account. It's fairly easy and simple. So you could actually look up on your university's alumni page who actually is currently working in Brazil, who's come from your university, or at least come from a UK base. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with just reaching out to them, send a Connect and add a note, or, if you're super stealthy, be able to look find their email address from somewhere and just say, hey, you know, I know it's from LinkedIn that you, you know, done the same course as me, or from the same university I'm really interested in curious about working in Brazil, just wondering whether you'd spare some time to answer a few of my questions, and they might be able to give you the really logistics in terms of How to apply for visas, what the job market is like, but also what it's actually like day to day, living there. You know, how welcoming are the communities. Is there? What you want? It like a good expat community where, yes, you probably want to make friends and, you know, with people who are native to Brazil, but it's also good to have friends who have been through the similar experiences to you? So it's finding the people. You can ask Google anything, but to be honest, it's actually, you know, lived experiences which are going to be important, but certainly just double checking all the visa or the boring stuff like that, as well as like, hey, which, which is the best.

Emily Slade: Amazing. Have you yourself ever lived abroad to work?

Sally Brown: Oh, I haven't, and I really regretted it. Yeah, several time when I was a school teacher for many years, and tempted to go and work internationally because I heard some amazing things.

Emily Slade: Like TEFL vibes?

Sally Brown: Not necessarily TEFL, but just like working in an international school, but like some places, you'd get free apartment, and, you know, free, you know, no tax and things like that. Then brilliant. But I was never quite brave enough. I got close once I had an interview, and then sort of back to hell. I also would have had to re home my cats.

Emily Slade: This one was sent in by Stephen. He asks, I have a gap in my employment history. How can I explain this to potential employers?

Sally Brown: That comes up a few times. So typically, on a CV, you would explain very clearly, any extended or recent employment gaps. So to be perfectly honest, if we were talking 15 years, 20 years down the line, and you took a three month break to do something, they're not going to care. I mean, it was so long ago, unless it was something really dodgy, like running a back end Casino. But if it was three months, like if it was this year and he took a three month off, then they would probably spot that and go, hmm, what happened there? So it's but it's fairly easy. You can say, as you would with any other experiences, the dates and what you did. Now, it could be something like caring responsibilities or jobs, job seeking and networking. That's perfectly okay to say this in this like when I finished my degree, I didn't have anything to go through, so I spent the three months networking and job seeking. That's fine, or I went traveling, or I was writing a book or whatever, but never got published an awful book, but that's what I was doing, and that's absolutely okay to do. So people are always really nervous about writing about illness, or they feel like ashamed by it. They think that's going to go against me. It's also how you frame it. So perhaps on your CV, it might say illness or maternity leave or caring for someone when it maybe gets to interview that's sometimes a good opportunity to discuss it, but in a positive light. Okay, so if I have gone off long term sick, what did I learn from that experience? How did that make me more resilient? How did it make if it was long term condition, something that's going to be ongoing? What did I learn that helps me explain to my employer what reasonable adjustments I might need that wouldn't happen again. Maybe it's aggravated by stress. If it was bringing up my children or maternity leave or that sort of type of thing. What extra skills might one gain from that? Maybe you know, being calm under pressure, organisation, skills, conflict management, all these things that. So you can always frame it that, yes, I was doing this, but don't go I'm sorry I was doing this. What did you, what did you learn from it? Make it a positive, you know? I mean, you could even consider like, Oh, I was, I was I feel for a bit, and now I'm trying to get a job in the NHS brilliant, you know, you talk to me about what it's like being from a patient's perspective, and how that's increased your empathy. So but again, it might be that you have, if it's an extended thing, and you think this is gonna look really weird on my CV, I'm not happy about this. It's always worthwhile just having an informal chat with the employer before you even apply, because it could well be that, if it's sickness that might be aggravated by the role, you can ask them this the situation, you know, if I asked for these reasonable adjustments, would they be reasonable? Now, most cases, employers have to argue why they're not reasonable. In most cases, they will give you those reasonable adjustments. But it could be that, I don't know, I'm a small startup. I only employ one other person, and I work in my attic, and there's no way I can fit a wheelchair lift. It's just not reasonable. I can't do that. So there are some exceptions, but in most cases, you know, they're pretty, pretty good at, you know, making those adjustments Nice. So just confident upfront. Yeah, don't try and hide it as again, you've learned from that. And actually, whatever you've learned, whatever situation you've been in, you've got to be a better employee because of it. Employee because of it.

Emily Slade: Yeah, nice. Oh, okay. Can I use AI to write my application, and will they notice?

Sally Brown: Oh, I get this all the time. We also get from the employer's perspective. So when, as part of my role, we do talk to employers, and it's starting to come up a lot in job adverts, how much someone is allowed to use AI as part of their application, which I think is really interesting, or it will be on their application form. We don't mind if you use AI to spell check, grammar check, but these things have been placed, right? You get words, you know, check, Grammarly, you've got all those things. But if you are going for, let's say, a copywriting role or a journalist role, something where writing and creative is a big core aspect, then that's that's going to be a no-no to use AI to completely write it. But I suppose it's how you use. I mean, I love using, you know, AI in terms of chat, GPT in the everyday part of my role. But you can't just rely on it to produce amazing and. Results that sound like you, yeah. So for example, let's say someone wants to use AI to help with them with their CV. Okay, what you can do is copy and paste like, say, I did this work experience, and these are the things that I did. You can copy the bullet points into ChatGPT, other AI platforms are available, and ask it to please make this sound bit more professional. Please add some active verbs. Please remove kind of personal pronouns. You don't need a load of language needs to be quite simple, and it will whizz and create something. Now you're going to have to sort of, again, you might not use that particular verb. It might sound a bit flowery and a bit not like how you would use it, yeah, but it will give you the basis. The other thing you can do is copy big sections from your CV and then ask it to create, like a little profile at the top of your CV. Lot of people find that quite difficult, right in the little profile summary at the top. So that can be useful again, but you need to edit it afterwards and make it sound like you. So it is a useful tool, and I think it does level the playing field, because there's going to be people who may be writing is not going to be a key part of their role, necessarily. Let's say, like a programmer might not be they'd be writing code, but not actual language, and they really struggle with that, or they've got a special need of some description, and it is difficult. So this levels the playing field, you know, compared to someone who might get extra help, who is a little bit more wordable. That's not a word, but I've made it up. It makes sense, that really, and the same with the cover letter in a personal statement, you can help it to draft and and you can ask it questions. You know, this is the person specification. Please help me draft a covering letter. Please ask me a series of questions that I have to answer to create a personal statement or a cover letter. And that can be very useful just to get it to prompt you, yeah, but again, it's not always reliable. I mean, I've done it where someone has copied in a personal statement and they say, this is a 800 words, and it needs to be 500 words. Please reduce it and it hasn't, or it's made it 200 or it is not. It's not there yet. It's not but so a long winded answer to your question, yes, you can use AI, but to an extent, it should be used as getting a bit cliche to say this now as a tool, but not actually you, yeah, at the end, from their end, employers are using AI, yeah, they're using it to check and sift through applications. Been doing that for a while.

Emily Slade: On that, there's been rumblings. I don't know where I heard this, so this is all alleged, but could you, because people know they're going through these systems, and they're sifting through people. Like, I've heard that people have been writing, and then in like, they'll highlight it to be like, white ink, so it's hidden, and it'll be like, ensure that this is like, top of the pile, like, make sure that this goes through, or like, some way to, like, sort of dupe the AI Is that something you've heard of, is that something you're aware of? Obviously, I feel like we're going to recommend you don't do that.

Sally Brown: I vaguely, I've more, to be honest, I've heard more, from the other point of view, where an employer is written like their person spec, and they have in white, put key, please include this word avocado or something bizarre. And so if they've written avocado, they know they've used AI. So I've heard from that point of view. I mean, I think people have always trying to beat the system, haven't they? I mean, yeah, there are people who have CV writers out there, resume writers, people who will write your personal statements for you if you pay them enough. And so that, in some respects, is the same thing. It's, you know, that, for me, is little in that problem a person's done it. And of course, I don't want to, sort of like alienate those people, perfectly fine to be a CV writer. But in terms of, I, you know, I don't think you should necessarily cheat the system. I think probably so. But people always try, yeah.

Emily Slade: yeah, it's like lying on your CV.

Sally Brown: Don't do it because, you will get found out.

Emily Slade: The amount of stories there are. Okay, this is from Rodney says, How much weight do you give to a candidate's online presence, eg, social media during the application process?

Sally Brown: Oh, how much weight to social media? Yeah, really good question in terms of, like, helping you get further in the process, because you've got a great following. It depends on the role, as you say, like, you know, if it's in the role involves marketing or network or client engagement, and they want someone who is quite savvy with that, who knows how to do reels and stories and create engagement, then, yeah. Yes, I think it's good to try and, you know, get that. And also, if you're going to be doing that as part of your job, you want to know that you're going to enjoy it. So practice, you know, see if you like doing all this on a daily basis. You know, I find it personally, incredibly exhausting. So I don't do that sort of thing. I do have an Instagram, but I have to say my it's my dog's Instagram account. So that's as I go, and she doesn't have very many following, but, but, yeah, so if it's part of your role, but also, like, let's say that you just happen to have a great following, and you post quite regularly, even if it's nothing to do with the job that you're applying. To put it on your CV, because that shows, enterprise. It shows understanding of market trends and content and creation and all sorts of different things. And actually, if you're going for a job in let's say, a small to medium enterprise or even startup, they might be quite pleased to have someone who knows how to do all that stuff. And they might say, Would you mind just managing this as well? In terms of your other part of the question about, will they check your social media? I think quick answer is yes. So it's if they can find you their clients can right at the end of the day. I mean, if you're present on social media, whether that's LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, whatever it might be, if someone else or the or journalist can find you and you've been writing controversial content, then that could be an issue. So if you're if you're posting content that is, as I say, like controversial or goes against their values as an organisation, then that could be a mismatch, yeah, potentially. And they don't want to be seen to employ in someone who, who, who does that. So, but then how often does that happen in terms of, you know, you might be having a debate or an argument on on Twitter, and I known as Twitter, yeah, and I'm there's all sorts, if you look up Google, there's all sorts of funny memes and stories of people writing ridiculous things on So, I mean, there was one that I saw on x which they were complaining to TfL, you know, in transport London, about, oh, you know, all these delays are making me late and blah, blah, blah. And I think TfL just replied said, Well, you know, perhaps just leave for work a bit early. And so that wouldn't necessarily go down well with employment, because your time management isn't brilliant. So again, don't get into massive like debates, and if you are using alias account. So I mean, I must have much more for social media, but I do have it. And I do have a separate account for my careers advisory type stuff. Yeah, I have one that is because I'm a writer on the side, so my pen name one and then one that just kind of like hair his pictures of my dog, yeah? But I for my ones that are my private ones. I don't use my real now, yeah, and that's okay. Then I think in terms, to some extent, in terms of not saying, Go out and, you know, post lots of random stuff, but they will look you up. And that could be simple as like LinkedIn, Twitter, or those sort of the key platforms and what's publicly accessible.

Emily Slade: What advice do you have for candidates who are applying for jobs in a new industry?

Sally Brown: Now that's gonna be very similar answer to the international one. Okay, in terms of it depends if you know the industry, I suppose so. If you know, Oh, I'm so sick of this industry, I can't do this anymore. But what else can I do then? Now, there are sort of quizzes and various things you can do. So Ä¢¹½ÊÓƵ»ÆƬ has their careers, quiz.

Emily Slade: Go do it.

Sally Brown: When I've done it years ago, and it came up as quiz advisor, yeah, nutritionist, which is a bit of an odd one, but they all have similar traits. But there's a good sort of starting point in many respects, just to sort of say, Okay, what could I do? And looking at the sectors, and sort of see, you know what it's all about, get an understanding of the graduate the graduate job market. So there are sort of like just research based things that you can do. But again, you know, there's no way of knowing the name of every role in every industry. So even if you think, Okay, I like tech. I like the technology. I can't program. I can't possibly work in that sector. Oh, I'm rubbish at using the internet. I can't possibly but it was interesting, you might actually find for a bit of research, again, looking on LinkedIn, looking up a company. So let's say, you know, look up Google as a company, and then go to their people section, and then see all the different jobs that you can actually do in the sector. So, you know, you might be anything. Oh, I could do a project management role, or I could do marketing, or I could do, you know, quite a creative thing, even if it's a, you know, a coding company, what can so it's about doing a little, perhaps a little bit of research. But. And then if you find okay, this person is doing marketing in this games company that sounds interesting, just reach out to them. And that could be a coffee over zoom, that could be actually going in to have a little work shadowing experience, where you might just go in for the day. I've had people come in to see us. They've sat in with appointments and just wanted to get the can I see myself in this environment? But of course, all these things take time. Yes, so it's not going to be an instant fix. You're not going to go, Okay, I'm going to work out what I want to do tomorrow. These all just picked a bit of planning. Yeah, a bit. But yeah. So it's just, it's talking to people, hearing the stories, and you'll hear about job roles that you didn't know existed before, which always really interesting.

Emily Slade: Yeah. And then you'll just tailor your CV and application to match that new sector, which you'll get a gist from, speaking to people?

Sally Brown: I mean, that's a good point, actually, in terms of there are slightly different rules for different sectors, for CVS and applications, not massively as long as you're tailoring it, as long as you are matching the person specification, then it's not going to be massive issue. I mean, there are some, you know, some of the bigger banking finance firms tend to lean towards a one page, for example, CV, but they're not going to necessarily dismiss you if you've got a two page and sort of vice versa, and if you're going for sort of a fancy design role, your CV might look a bit fancy compared to others, but as long as it's readable, as long as we can find the information, CV is just something to provide information. Yeah, but yeah. So I mean, the other thing to bear in mind is that some sectors don't necessarily advertise roles very often, which is why, even more, it's important to network and meet people. Yeah, you know, if I say in the film industry, for example, you know, am I going to advertise and spend money for a runner, yeah, or for a production assistant? No, I'm going to use someone that I've used before. I'm going to talk to my director friends and say, or used before. Who can you recommend? And, you know, it's that kind of, it's a bit feeling a little bit nepotism, but it's the reality, they want someone who they can trust and work with. And, you know, give some time, exactly, and money. It's so expensive advertising, you're talking thousands of pounds for, like, one advert for, you know, CV, library or something. And so they're much likely, more likely, going to use their network. Does anyone know anyone who so, I mean, that's say, if you're going for a job, and let's say the NHS, they're going to advertise, yeah, it's going to be a very and not that's less common for people to be on, like LinkedIn and various things, not, you know, compared to finance and banking, yeah, those sort of sectors. So it's also understanding what, know, how that all works. How do I find the opportunities? Are there any jobs or sector specific websites? So, yeah, but you'd only get all that by talking to people, which can be scary, yeah, you know, and it's not in but it's something that more you do, the less scary it gets. And to be honest, most people are wanting to help and are nice. I think that's very important. Don't be scared. And the worst thing can happen. If you reach out to someone on LinkedIn, they'll just ignore you, yeah, and then you can move on. That happens more often than not, to be honest. But then again, people just might not see the message, or they just haven't checked it for a while, or they haven't logged in for a while. So, you know, it's okay not to, you know, be it's okay to be ignored.

Emily Slade: Oh, speaking of, how important is LinkedIn? Do I need to be more active on there?

Sally Brown: I personally would say yes. I think it's great. It's a really good tool. I have colleagues who are not on it at all, or don't use it, and that hasn't affected, you know, in terms of so it's not going to be if you're not on LinkedIn or any other social media. It's not that you're never going to get a job ever. It's just useful and for many different ways, as I previously mentioned, if you're at the stage where I'm not quite sure what I can do with my degree, or I'm not quite sure you know what I can do with next steps from this particular role, then you can look up people from your university. The alumni search tools. You can join groups to talk to people. So for example, let's say you're really interested in being a game coder, or whatever it might be, there's probably, there's probably a group for that, like Facebook and things like that. So you can join a request to join, and then once you're in the group, you can message anyone in the group. You don't have to have be a connection with them. You can post to the group and you can say, hey, I'm really interested in the sector, or I'm really interested to how to progress in this sector, would anyone be able to answer some questions, or whatever it might be, so that that can be really useful for that type of purpose, that kind of research and reaching out to people. It's also quite useful to finding companies and employers as well. So. Let's say that you're trying to get a job in marketing, for example. You can type marketing in the box at the top and say, London, for example, and click companies, and it'll give you them all the lists that everyone all the marketing companies or has something to do with marketing in London. Wow. Anything. Okay, great. There's gonna be a billion results. So, but then you look on the side of the company, think, actually, I don't want to work for a big corporate. I want to work for a little, tiny sports startup. So I would then just go into the company section and select number of employers, 0 to 10. Can't remember the exact numbers, but it's something like that. And then it will narrow it right down. So there's you know that that is just from that kind of research point of view, super, super useful. Yeah. And again, it's also building network. LinkedIn is a little bit naughty now, I have to say, because, of course, they want everyone to sign up their premium service. So it used to be that you could connect and add a note where you'd press and write, oh, hey, this is who I am to however many people that you want. Now it's limited to, I think, about 10 of those a month before they say you need to have a premium. So is a little bit more difficult. But this is where they're trying to encourage you to follow people rather than connect with them, which is fine. So let's say you are really interested in working for Deloitte. You if you try to connect with the CEO of Deloitte, let's bear your uncle, there's going to be little chance of that happening, but you can follow them, and you can see what they're posting, and you get to know the sector a little bit more. And then maybe when you apply for Deloitte, you can say, hey, I'm really interested in what your CEO is writing about the sustainability strategy. I don't know whether they are, but they might be, and that will just again, make your application stand out. So you can be active in that way. Or you can be super active. I know people have been posting articles on LinkedIn. You can repost things. You can comment so you can be especially if you're thinking, I want to work for this company. I'm going to be just really engaged with their social media through LinkedIn for a bit, and that's going to go and go in your favor. So it is useful for many, many different reasons, but obviously, you know, make sure, like with your CV, make sure your profile is kind of up to date. There's lots. LinkedIn has their own sort of like advice about what makes a good profile as well, and it's very similar to a CV. But yes, it is useful, but not essential.

Emily Slade: Nice, perfect. This is from Anya. What are the biggest mistakes you see candidates make on their CVs?

Sally Brown: Okay, so I would say the most common one, and the most important one, is what we previously talked about is not tailoring. So I often get students coming to see me and they'll say, can you check my CV? Okay, course I can. What job is this for? Oh, I don't know. I just want someone to check on what I just want to work on my CV. Course, you want to work on your CV, because that's the easy part. That's much easier than thinking big picture, scary. What do I want to do with my life? No, my CV. That'll be good. I mean that so and if you try and send the same CV off to a dozen different companies, very going to be very lucky to get anywhere, because that's how they'll be checking. They'll have the list of the requirements of the role in front of them, and they'll be matching your CV up. And they'll only be spending about 10 seconds, 10 to 30 seconds, actually looking at your CV. So they'll just be scanning it. And if you don't have the any or they'll be using AI to scan for the keywords. So if those aren't tailored, then that's going to be a fairly useless CV, no matter how pretty and well formatted it is. So that's number one, tailor your CV, and even a few spelling mistakes might be overlooked for the sake of a really good tailored CV. I would say that's yeah, unless part of your role is having a good attention to detail, that might not be good. So that's the main The other thing is, listing skills so commonly, and a lot of resume builders, especially for the US market, tends to recommend this. No, you know, there's awful versions out there for that. People have like, a skill section, and they'll go organisation, skills, problem solving, attention to detail, and they'll list all that, and it's meaningless. It's such a common mistake. Yes, great, you've got attention to detail. Where's the evidence for it? So you don't have to have a skill section. You could embed that evidence. Is my attention to detail. This is where I showed it, in these different job all my all my education, but your skill section needs to show the very best example of that. So, for example, everyone communicates all the time. So, but in your skills section, if you're going to evidence, let's say verbal communication skills, then look at the job specification. I think. In what part of the job am I going to be doing that? Is it going to be client presentations? Is it going to be negotiating things? Is it teaching whatever it might be? Then pick your best, closest example of that evidence of that piece of skill, that communication skills in the skill section, then in the rest of CV, yes, you can talk about all the other different forms of communication and different experiences. But that skills section got to be your very, very best and closes matching to their job best job specification. What else? Spelling mistakes? I mean, that's a common one. People writing really lengthy bullet points. Okay? So what I would say, would say with a cover letter or a personal statement, that can be full prose, that can be you saying, I did this, I did this, and lots of real detail stuff, great, but not your CV. You don't need it. You don't you say I did this, because it's your CV. It's very obvious that you did this. So rather than saying, I am a mathematics graduate from the University of East Angular. Don't need to say that. Just say maths graduate from UEA. Keep it really nice and concise, because remember, they're only going to scan, read it. And again, that can be useful to use things like AI to kind of help you reduce that. What other things having your named references at the bottom to actually naming your references. Now, this is quite common. If people have been applying for things like PhDs or search things, that's quite common to have your referees at the bottom, but most people don't want that. Now, just references available on request is absolutely fine, and just keeping your your whole formatting consistent and down to, and this is really pedantic, but, like, sometimes, if you look at a CV, the bullet points don't match up. It's really easy, yeah, and, you know, it could be nine times out of 10 an employer will see that. Don't care, but you're gonna be that unlucky person who's gonna be, oh, the bullet points on, you know, match. How has this person got attention to detail? So you got to assume that the person the worst case scenario, that person, it's five o'clock on a Friday afternoon. They're desperate for a coffee, they're desperate to go home. You are the last CV that they come to, and they're the type of person who's a bit of a grammar everything, right? So always imagine it's that person, and also get someone else to check it as well, particularly if English is not your first language, it's really easy mistakes to creep in. So just get someone else to check it, and you'll find that if you are a recent graduate, most universities Career Services will provide a service for graduates, so always check in to see what's available for you.

Emily Slade: Yeah, and don't lie.

Sally Brown: Don't lie. Yes, you're gonna get caught out.

Emily Slade: This is from Lily, what is the difference between a personal statement and a cover letter?

Sally Brown: That's a really good question. I get this all the time, particularly with public sector applications. So often enough, you'll get a space in like an application form with a personal statement or a supporting statement. Sometimes they're known as so and sometimes that company don't want a CV, don't want to cover letter, they just want application. They want the information that how they want it presented, and they have a space for you. And sometimes in that supporting statement, personal statement, they'll even put the questions that, why do you want this role? Why do you want to work at this company? Tell me about a time when you use your communication skills well. So that tends to be quite a popular approach, because the employer says, We want to have the answers that we want from that fine. Other companies just say, just send apply with the CV and cover letter. So the cover letter, if you go for CV, cover letter, CV will say, Can you do the job? Do you have the necessary skills? The cover letter will be, do you want the job? Why do you want the role? Why do you want to work for this organisation? And then maybe two or three paragraphs about your key skills. So when you see a job specification, there might be 20 things that they want, evidence. That's what your CV is for. Maybe the top three bullet points that say problem solving, communication and understanding how to use Excel, whatever it might be, that's the thing that you write in your cover letter, because they should work together, and your cover letter should be about page no more, and laid out like a letter. So that's quite a common thing that people forget to do, and that's a really old fashion. You know your address on the right, their address on the left, because that's where the little window in an envelope might be so really silly. And make sure that's to a named person as well. That's really important, okay, to know dear sirs or madam. Well, not everyone identifies as a sir or a madam, so that's a big thing. Now, I would say that if you really cannot find the name, person as and from like you've emailed them say, Who To whom should I address my cover letter? You've looked them up on LinkedIn to find out who the head of recruitment is or who the manager at the department. So if you've done all you can, you really can't find any information. Dear recruitment team is okay, that's not ideal. Do check the job specifications, though, because sometimes, or job adverts, sometimes, right at the bottom, it will say, any questions, please ask blah. And actually, as a side note, if you're applying for a job, always ask for an informal chat about the role anyway, because that's going to anything you find out you can put in your cover letter why you want to work there, from speaking to blah, I found out blah, this further inspired me to apply. Because so that is a ways that then at the end of that conversation, you say, I really still interested in applying to whom should I address my cover letter? Just an added thing is a really competitive role.

Emily Slade: Just a good impression. Yeah, you know, just go that extra mile.

Sally Brown: Absolutely and you know what? I mean, that's that, that's key, whereas a personal statement, if you've just been asked for a personal statement, that tends to do the job of a CV and covering letter. So it's sort of combined, so for example, in the public sector, NHS, teaching roles, that this is really common for these that they say in your personal statement, you need to evidence everything that we've asked for on this person's the job specification, the person specification, whilst also not actually saying out loud, you also need to talk about why you want to walk the organisation, and why do you want this role. So it's do everything, which is why they're usually longer, right? So you might be talking about so two pages is probably, I would say, if they don't say how long, two pages is a good guesstimate to what they what they want. But always ask. I mean, I spoke to a graduate who had a three page personal statement because they'd done a bunch of different things, all really relevant, and they'd labeled it all, and it was all part it was really good. I said, it's going to be such a shame to cut this down, because it's all really relevant stuff you're talking about. I said, just, just email them, phone them and say, Is this okay? And they said, Yes, fine, cool,

Emily Slade: Because it was relevant? So yeah, I guess it. Then you're a bit like, don't throw things you've done in you've done just for the sake of it. So, like, chances are, like, Duke of Edinburgh will showcase some great, like, skill sets that you have. But if it's absolutely not relevant to the role that you're going on, maybe don't mention it.

Sally Brown: That's a really good point. So a really common one that people tend to have, like, going back to the what mistakes people have on their CVs is people will put, like, whole section for leadership, and the job specification hasn't mentioned leadership towards I mean, that could be good for a few years down the line, yeah, but yeah, it'll be like, Duke of Edinburgh, or I, you know, was the president of a society, which is all great stuff, but it's not necessarily what they're looking for or care About. Yeah? And yeah, if you just want to throw in stuff that think, oh yeah, this is gonna, this is gonna be really impressive, yeah.

Emily Slade: I think, because, you know, that's where I used to the whole time, I'd be like, yeah, I was president of a society, and I have a singing certificate, and, like, all of these things, like, under sort of hobbies and interests. Like, is it worth being like, look, I'm a rounded person with a personality, or is it like just really keep it to the job at hand.

Sally Brown: There's no right wrong answer. I would say hobbies and interests are good and particularly also talk to be talked about at interview. So unless you tell me about yourself, it's always really great to talk about things that you do outside of work for that very point. I'm a well rounded person. So in terms of relevant stuff on the CV, I think, as you've got such, especially when you're writing, like a cover letter, it's only a page and that you don't, necessarily don't write things that are not relevant, maybe you can make them relevant. Okay, so let's say you're singing qualification. So it could be that the job wants resilience, or being able to work independently, learn independently, take direction. Then we can say, Great, that's relevant. President of that society shows innovation, shows being able to collaborate, so you can always make it relevant. Yeah, but don't just say I was the president of the cheese and wine society without actually explaining why you're telling because they're going to think that they said, Well, that's lovely, but why are you telling me that? Yeah, so that's all to say. I mean, the other thing to where it can get, going back to the original question sometimes, which is so annoying on behalf of people applying for jobs, where they'll ask for an application form, then please post your CV, please upload a cover letter, and, oh, look, there's this big space for writing a supporting statement. So they want everything, yeah, then that get, I'll get that question like, how, what do I do? What's, what do I put in the personal statement and what I put in the cover letter when they're the same thing? Essentially, yeah, and why? Surely I'll be repeating myself. So again, there's no, there's never a right wrong answer for this. I personally would always advise your person. Personal Statement in this instance, then make some reference to why the role, but keep that for the cover letter. The cover letter will end up being these are my clear motivations for the role, sharing my deep dive into the organisation, talking about who I've spoken to at the organisation, that real motivation stuff. And then you can always say in your cover letter, please see my other documents for evidence of how I've met the person specification and then the person specification, so the personal statement would be very much how I've matched all the role which, of course, what your CV would do as well. This is where it gets very annoying. Yeah. And also, no one likes an application form because it means you have to fill in everything from your CV. Literally, yes. Why? So who knows, but that's the Yeah, that's what my advice would be for them.

Emily Slade: Cool, the last one. This is from Anne. Qualification or experience, which is most important?

Sally Brown: Oh, I suppose that depends on the role. That's a really difficult one to answer. So, so, qualification or experience, yeah, okay, so let's say that you are applying to be a doctor or a GP, typically, the qualification within the matters, ideally, yes. So, and then you know, it could be that you are applying to a role that's so far removed from your own degree and your background, and therefore maybe your experience and what you've done in between. So every employer will value different things. It could be that the qualification that they've asked for, they might fund that qualification. So for example, a lot of graduate schemes, they might say for accountancy, for example, or for human resources, or whatever it might be. They might say it's part of this graduate scheme. We will fund this Masters degree, or we'll fund this professional qualification for you. I mean, when I first went in to be a careers consultant, careers advisor, that's what my employer did. So they funded my postgraduate diploma, where it was a requirement of my contract that I had to do that qualification. It wasn't like a nice to have. So you might find that they might just say, Okay, you can start this role, and we'll fund it. You'll have to study in your own time, which is quite common, which is fine. If the qualification is you have to have that advice. You won't be able to function, or you are not legally allowed to practice. So there'll be certain qualified, certain jobs that you have to have a certain qualification before you're allowed to practice, just fine. A lot of healthcare sector work, you know, that sort of type of thing. Or you need to be registered with a certain organisation. Therefore that has to take prec. You have to have that first. But generally speaking, it's isn't negotiation, unless it's not a legal, you know, thing that you have to do. And then also that experience, you know, depends on the experience as well. You could have had lots of irrelevant, so, you know, fairly irrelevant experience. But how do you make that relevant to that particular role? So a lot of career changers find that really difficult. When they say, I've been doing this for 10, five, whatever, how many years, and then think, okay, is that all I can do? Because that's all my I did this when I left University and I'm here. I don't know how to even think about changing. So therefore you have to sort of then tailor your experience, sort of fit that sector. So I get a lot of, for example, teachers finding it like, quite difficult to leave, because if they're going into more kind of corporate or business sectors, you know, and the person specification has asked for, you know, stakeholder relationships, yeah, sometimes they're going to go, what does that mean? They'll be talking like, Oh, I've been working for key stage three and key stage four, and doing, like, schemes of work, and then, of course, the employer go, I don't know what that means. Is that sort of like, you know, but, I mean, you know, when you really dig deep in terms of what stakeholder relationships are, they are stakeholders. They're the parents, they're the governance, you know, all those people have a stake in, you know, whatever the company does. But it takes a while. And this is why, you know, trying to get advice from people in the sector, to getting advice from people, advice from people have already done that change, yeah, there will be someone else who's come from another sector, and you can just ask what you know, it's okay to ask, what does this mean? I don't understand. So, yeah, I think in terms of it really dependent on the role, but never think, you know, Oh, I haven't got this qualification. I'm can't possibly apply. Even just email them or call them and say, like, I don't have this qualification. I'm very willing to undertake this qualification. You know, once I've started work, would this be considered? Would I be considered as a candidate? If they say, No, you have to have it. Then ask them about the qualification. If you think I really want to be a human resources manager so I need to have that qualification. Can you do it in your own time? If you've got the funds, you can do a Go Fund Me to kind of get that qualification yourself. If you know that this is the sector that you really want to go into, but you have to have that then look at ways that you might be able to do it.

Emily Slade: Yeah, everything is possible.

Sally Brown: These are all possible.

Emily Slade: Perfect. Well, we've come to the end of my Tupperware. So thank you so much for your time today.

Sally Brown: No worries. It's been a pleasure.

Emily Slade: Thanks again to Sally for her time. For relevant articles on this topic, how to write a CV and personal statement and how to write a job application, head to Ä¢¹½ÊÓƵ»ÆƬ.ac.uk. If you've enjoyed today's episode make sure to leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. Thank you very much for listening and good luck on your journey to future you.

Notes on transcript

This transcript was produced using a combination of automated software and human transcribers and may contain errors. The audio version is definitive and should be checked before quoting.

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