The changes to qualifying as a lawyer webinar

This is a transcript of the changes to qualifying as a lawyer webinar held on Tuesday 17 August as part of the Future You series

Contributors

Host: Adam Crosbie

Panelists:

• Ben Burns, policy associate education and training, Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA)
• Shane Robson, academic support officer, Law Training Centre

Episode transcript

Adam: So welcome everyone to today's session. So as you might have saw on the synopsis today's session involves the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Law Training Centre who are represented here today. So we're going to explore why changes being made to qualifying as a lawyer, what the SQE involves, how it affects those already studying, and what is meant by qualifying legal work experience and what employers think of the changes. So just a quick note, we were expecting someone from Womble Bond Dickinson today, unfortunately, she's had to cancel due to illness so we've just got the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Law Training Centre today. So to start off with we'll just get some of the attendees to introduce themselves. So Ben, would you like to start us off?

Ben: Yep. So I'm Ben Burns, I work in the strategy and policy team at the SRA been there for about nine months and prior to that, I was called as a barrister in 2015 but then kind of shifted into policy work within the barrister profession, then over to the solicitor side.

Adam: Fantastic thank you very much and Shane.

Shane: Hi good morning to everybody. My name is Shane I work for the Law Training Centre. I assist the students and the tutors on the courses in creating content and looking over quality assurances for the Law Training Centre and also lecturer at universities in the Midlands.

Adam: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, both of you for joining us today. And so the first sort of topic we want to explore is why was it necessary to change the route to qualifying as a solicitor?

Ben: I can go on that one from the from the SRAs perspective. So I think there were five kind of big key reasons why we wanted to introduce the SQE and change the route to qualifying.

So I think the first is that the traditional route was inflexible so typically all candidates would have to take the same route to qualification, which was undergrad degree, conversion course if your undergrad wasn't in law, the LPC and then a two year training contract. The second reason, which is kind of linked to the first is that the traditional route was expensive. So you had those kind of steps but the LPC in particular could cost in the region of up to £17/18,000 which is obviously very expensive. That kind of leads on to the third reason, which is that the traditional route was quite risky for candidates. So if you look at the average progression figures from 2011 to 2019, you had about 10,000 people each year starting the LPC but then only about five and a half thousand to six thousand people starting a training contract so we call that the kind of training contract bottleneck that drop off from committing to the LPC but then perhaps you know, not being sure or confident that you're actually going to go on and qualify as a solicitor through a training contract. And all of those things kind of lead on to the fourth reason, which is the diversity implications. So people from less well represented backgrounds are probably more likely to be negatively affected by things like cost, inflexibility and the risk that came with the LPC. I think the fourth one, which is our concern as a regulator about inconsistent standards, so obviously, as the regulator for the solicitor profession, we need to be sure that all new solicitors are meeting the same kind of consistent standards and that's kind of in the interest of the legal services. And under the old system what you had was lots of different LPC providers setting and marking their own assessment. We couldn't be as confident as we would like to be that all of the solicitors who were passing and being admitted we're meeting the same consistent high standard. So they’re the kind of five reasons we thought that the old system needed changing.

Adam: That's really interesting. Shane, do you have anything else to add on to that?

Shane: Yeah, I mean, obviously Ben's covered everything from the SRA standard perspective that I mean, that's exactly what I am aware of. I think the new approach is, I think one of the key things is the flexibility that the SRA has now offered with the SQE to this option of lower costs in total. So as Ben was saying, an LPC could cost in the region of 17,000 pounds, it also opens the door to people that maybe are a little bit more maturer, who have gone into the law profession, and haven't got the confidence maybe to go and do a degree or maybe they've already done a degree so they can't fund it so they'll have maybe equivalent qualifications, which they can use as well. And most definitely the flexibility for young learners who maybe have from school, college to university, done a degree in something that they possibly didn't even want a degree in the first place, and didn't feel confident enough to do a law degree. So it really opens up the flexibility and provides big differences between the LPC routes, and also this the new qualifying routes. And I think, again, Ben covered all the points here, very succinctly, it's about ensuring that everybody is at the same standard and I think there was some sort of inconsistency previous. So when everyone takes the SQE one or the SQE two exams, they're all being set against the same standards, everyone will have the same set of questions if you like, and the SRA can really now home in and ensuring that the solicitors profession in general, is full of competent solicitors who can provide a really good service and maintain professionalism for solicitors, but also install confidence in the end user as well. So people, when they go and see solicitors, they want to make sure that everyone can deal with their issues to the correct standards. So I think that's it really I think it's making it I think the biggest change was making it fit for purpose and ensuring that there was flexibility there. So that law firms as well, you know, if you've got someone working in your law office who maybe isn't qualified or doesn't have a law degree, and you can see that they've got real potential, the law firm can also work with them to try and assist them through the SQE one and the SQE two, and giving people a greater opportunity. And especially and I think one of the important things that I personally believe here is that it does help people of different backgrounds, whether that's people within sort of economic backgrounds or social economic backgrounds that didn't have the confidence to think that they could be a solicitor and now actually through this route, they can go through this route and really progress through the degrees through the different training processes that are available from different providers. And also knowing that they the risk factor of you know, you haven't invested 17,000 pounds in an LPC to then fail it. So here with the SQE one for example, once you've taken that, you know that you can progress into the next level or if you don't feel confident or confident or comfortable doing it then you haven't really lost as much money so I think there's those I think those factors for me the flexibility, the new approach, the consistency and allowing people an opportunity to experience this sort of profession which has always been real rather shielded or rather guarded.

Adam: Fantastic. That's really, really interesting. Thank you both so much. So the sort of next topic I'd like to explore is, what exactly is the SQE and what does it involve? Would anyone like to start us off?

Ben: I mean, I can kick off, I think Shane's covered some of the points there. So I think the key thing that I'd want candidates or students to know is that the SQE is not a course. So the SQE one and SQE two, which Shane was talking about, they are assessments which we kind of use to gate keep the solicitors profession to make sure that everyone who gets through or admitted is competent.

The SQE as a whole has kind of four components. The first, which Shane already touched on is that we only require a degree or equivalent experience. And the key thing there is or equivalent experience, which is the flexibility that Shane was talking about. So that experience could be an apprenticeship, it could be work experience, which gives you similar knowledge and skills that you would have acquired through a degree. And the second component of the SQE is the exam. So as Shane mentioned, you've got the SQE one and the SQE two. The SQE one if you think of that as the kind of knowledge exam. So that is testing your ability to identify and apply legal principles in a computer based assessment. And the SQE two, if you think of that as your skills based assessment, so that is testing your ability to actually deploy the skills that you would need to deploy if you were practicing as a solicitor. And that's a combination of written skills so drafting legal drafting, for example, and oral skills so advocacy is one of the oral skills that is assessed through the SQE two. And there's loads of information on our website so the assessment specifications, example questions, if you just go to SRA website and find the SQE area of the website you'll find all of that. And the third component of the SQE is qualifying work experience. So if you think about the old system, you had to do a two year training contract in one place so typically a two year training contract in one law firm. We've made it much more flexible and I think there's a question later in the talk about QWE but the key thing to know is that we've made it much more flexible, to really open up the profession. So you no longer need to get a two year position in the same place to qualify as a solicitor, you can do a much more kind of tailored, bespoke and flexible form of work experience to qualify. And the final component, which I don't really need to cover in any detail is the character and suitability checks, which is just things like, you know, if someone has a criminal conviction, you know, that depending on the nature of the conviction that might make them unsuitable to be a solicitor and you know, that's just the basic of any kind of regulated profession.

Shane: Yeah, I mean, I'll just pick up there from Ben. I mean, again, he covered everything, rather well. Great, because it's the SRA. I think a couple of those things that Ben picked up on, really, and there's just a highlight is the flexibility again, so the first element and this is a massive change for the SRA was you no longer have to have this qualifying law degree, you can have any degree in any subject or the equivalent. And that is sort of really great for like I say, for maturer students or maturer people who maybe have done degrees in the past on other subjects have moved away from law for whatever reason. So that's the really big. And I think it's probably, I'm sure, it's probably a quite a scary move for the SRA to commit to, but a fantastic one, nonetheless, because of that approach. And then you've got the SQE one in the SQE two. So the SQE one is, as Ben was saying its assessing your functioning legal knowledge two different assessments over two days, I think it's around about 10 hours of assessment time and there are 180 questions per examination, five multiple choice answers, so it's best possible choice answer on each particular question. And again, that kind of it the important thing to note, though, is that whilst the SRA have created this new flexible approach, and they've created what may be deemed to be an easier route than the traditional route that we're getting rid of, it's really important for students and learners to note that the exams, when you say multiple choice questions, I think people think they're going to be easy. They're not. They are to set a bar and that bar you have to pass. So my advice to anyone before undertaking the examination is to go on the SRA website, download, they have a mock examination, it's 90 questions, go through that test yourself and have a look to see whether you are confident in passing those questions that all the answers are there as well on the last page, and that will then assist you also, I think that's great because it gives you a another stepping stone before you take the SQE one to sharpen up your knowledge and understand where the SRA are coming with this new approach and just the qualifying work experience touch on that, again, it's a great new approach from the SRA from my perspective, because you don't have to have that training contract, you don't have to be in a position for two years solid. And I know we're going to come into this again, as Ben approached. But this is a really big change, I think from the SRA and a positive one for anybody who wants to get into the profession, which allows the SQE two then to be hopefully more of a fun element to the examinations when other people are going to be really testing their knowledge and their practical and written and oral skills as well. I think that's it really, what it involves is not you know, four simple is now four very simple stages, degree or equivalent, SQE one, SQE two, so your SQE examinations, your qualifying work experience and your suitability. So I think from that approach as well, it just makes it from a learner's perspective from a student perspective, you no longer have to go into this well, I've got this degree, it's not qualifying now what do I need to do I need to do the GDL. Now I need to do the LPC now I need to do a training contract. Now I need to do this. So it's a real simplified process with regards to the SQE.

Adam: Fantastic. Thank you so much. So the next question is how much does the SQE cost?

Shane: Now, I wasn't sure if this is this question with regards to costs of a course or the exams itself. But the exams themselves from this year are going to be a total both £3,980. So SQE one will be £1,558, which is, again, if I just touched on what I said earlier with regards to costs, you know, if you were to fail that exam, or you were to take that, and you were to feel that this isn't the right path. As Ben touched on as well that's only £1,500 that you've invested rather than the LPC route, which used to be you know, 12, 15, £17,000 and SQE two will be £2,422. So you take your first examination, SQE one £1,558 and then you've got that time and flexibility before you take SQE two, which is £2,422 pounds. If I just quickly if the question was about training courses, preparation courses, which obviously the LTC provide, they can vary depending upon the type of course if you want to take so there's going to be students, it's going to be learners that have got a law degree so they'll have some of the key skills already and they will only need top up courses or they need fast track courses. Or there'll be people that haven't maybe studied in law before, or maybe work in a law firm and then we offer we offer and other providers offer much bigger courses over a period of 15 to 18 months, which allows learners to learn everything they're going to need before taking the SQE examinations.

Ben: Yeah, that's completely right. And I think so Shane obviously covered the cost of the assessments and I think in terms of the courses, one of our main objectives with the SQE was really to open up the training market. So just to make sure that within that training market, there were more affordable options. So there is still some expensive options, you know, you've got LLMs with integrated SQE training, obviously, that's gonna cost quite a bit. But already, even though the SQE is in its kind of earlier stages, we're already seeing much more cost effective and affordable options to prepare for the SQE. And it can be, you know, well on our website, we have a list of the existing SQE training providers that already exists. And there's a real diversity already there. So you've got standalone kind of intensive SQE prep courses, which might you know, when you finish your degree, you might spend the rest of your summer prepping for the SQE. You've got kind of full length, you know, maybe one year SQE prep courses. As I said, you've got the LLMs with integrated SQE prep, and undergraduate law degrees with integrated SQE prep as well. And then there's the apprenticeship pathway as well. And I think it's been in the legal press a fair bit over the last couple of months that we're already seeing the kind of upward trend in firms starting to commit to offer apprenticeship pathways that they hadn't already offered before which include prepping for the SQE.

Shane: Yeah, just add on to that if you don't mind with all these different courses, etc, that are suddenly popping up, whether it be SQE prep or whether it be LLM with a joint SQE prep. I just anyone that's watching today my biggest advice with regards to picking a prep course if needed, is to actually speak to, go out and do your own research. Because what I find is if you if you're already part of a university, you've done your LLB or your BA in your course, they're going to try and promote something like a Masters degree and I'm not knocking a Masters degree in the slightest but really now think about what you need to qualify, as opposed to what a university or, or a provider might think that you want to spend in order to qualify. So there are, a look at the options available, the different packages are available. I'm speaking on behalf of the LTC in particular, we're offering packages that just offer mock assessments that we've created, so that people can go and test their knowledge constantly, we're offering a pick and mix so you can pick different modules that you may be not confident in. We're offering separate courses, which run throughout the whole SQE one prep. But fundamentally, it's going make sure you do your own research on whether you need a prep course and how that prep course is going to help you, especially with regards to things like LLMs and you know Masters degrees aren't a requirement of being a solicitor. So really think about, you know, the SRA have made this cost effective process to ensure that students and learners can become solicitors. So don't you know, especially with institutions, the SQE is new so institutions aren't all always geared up to giving that advice with that. But go to the SRA website, go to individual providers and speak to law firms as well, a law firms as Ben said, they're getting on board with the SQE now it's the next is the big thing. So make sure you're speaking to lots of different people to get the best advice, and that you're making the most of any savings that the SRA have, like sort of implemented for you here. Otherwise, you're going to be spending money and then realising actually, I didn't need to do that. When I could have just done a £2,000 prep course, for example, and move straight into SQE one, you want to really think about your roots now. And the financial element of it really, you know, because it's going to be it's going to be huge, I think for learners and students to be able to progress through this route as of September.

Ben: I think Shane's completely right in just a really small point Shane mentioned earlier about the kind of mature students or people who might be career changes. So there's a very large provider, who's a very large recognised legal training provider that is offering SQE and SQE training course and it takes payment by monthly instalment. And I think around 80% of the people on its course, as it stands, are paying, are working kind of normal jobs and paying out of their salary perhaps that you know, their monthly pay check. So I've already seen that kind of early suggestions of the kind of positive diversity implications and opening up the market to people who might have been worried or lack confidence if it was for them before.

Adam: Fantastic. Thank you so much for that information. And so my next question is, can you tell us a bit more about the two years of qualifying work experience and what you can do to count towards that?

Ben: Yeah, I mean, I'll quickly just in terms of the, I guess, the bare bones of what QWE is. So I mean that the purpose of QWE is to expose you to the competencies, the knowledge and skills that you would need as a practicing solicitor. So if you go back to the old kind of rigid traditional system of qualification you like, like Shane and I both said you had to do a two year training contract and that led to the training contract bottleneck where you know, lots of different legal service providers, firms, maybe didn't have the resource or the commitment to give someone a two year training contract. So there was a bit of, well the bottleneck was created. So with QWE, you can do your qualifying work experience in up to four different organisations. And they can be different lengths, as long as they add up to two years full time, or the equivalent if it was done on a part time basis. So just to give you an illustrative example, I just wrote one down this morning. So in theory, I mean, there's many different combinations you could do, you could do one month work experience on a placement during your law degree, you could do six months in a charity that provides legal services, five months in an overseas law firm because your QWE can be done overseas as well as in England and Wales. And you could do 12 months in a firm in England and Wales. That's just one example of many. And I think that just really helps to drive home that it's, it's it opens up this opportunity for people who want to become solicitors to really create a kind of bespoke route that suits them and their kind of their aspirations as well as their circumstances in order to qualify as a solicitor so it's much more flexible. And another key point is that the QWE can be taken before, during or after taking the SQE assessments, so there's no kind of set order that you have to do SQE one, then you have to do your QWE then you have to do SQE two. It’s much more flexible than that. And it's really up to the candidate and I think are kind of, I guess final, final check isn't the right term to use, but we use the SQE assessments to make sure that people who are being admitted as solicitors are competent for what you do leading up to that point, is so much more flexible than it used to be, which will really help to open up the profession. QWE does need to be signed off but the key thing to remember is your competency is not being signed off, because your competence is assessed to the SQE assessment. So the only thing that is signed off in terms of QWE is the duration of the QWE, and that you were exposed to some of the competencies or perhaps even all of the competencies that you need to practice as a solicitor. There's loads of information for employers and for candidates on our website. So if you just type in SRA QWE candidates, I think that the first page that should come up will be the relevant bit of our website.

Shane: Yeah, I think, again, excuse me, I think again, this is a real advancement for the SRA in the approach to what qualifying work experience is, because the training contract would be rigid, it would be set in stone, and you'd be there for two years. If you didn't like it, then you sort of had to put up with it. But here, the fact that you can, it's two years equivalent, up to four work placements, I believe, as Ben said, the flexibility of being able to work for different companies up to four different companies and the fact that this is now not only is it paid work, but it's unpaid work, which is a great benefits. So you know, universities sometimes have their own law clinics. I know the LTC is about sets up our own Law Clinic so that we can assist learners in qualifying work experience because all of our lecturers are already qualified professionals. We signed off by, I believe, a solicitor of England, or I’m gonna test myself here now on the competency. There's a competency person or something in the firm. I can't remember what they're called, but they are there, right? Yeah. So the way it's signed off is different as well. But it is, and I think SRA do say on their website very clearly that the is not to test your competency. The SRA via the SQE is now to test your competency. And again, it goes back to I think that one of Ben's first points, that is to make sure that there's the same consistent standards. So you know, we've got in the past, I'm not saying that this has happened but if you've got a solicitor who may be being a bit slack, and they've signed it off, and you haven't actually done it, and they're just rushing through to get your training contract signed through, then obviously you don't have that competency. So by the SRA, taking control of that it's a great thing. And the fact that you can go and do your four placements across a variation of international law, UK law, and the fact that you can be in, like, say a law clinic, a business that operates in the legal services, a charitable organisation. My mind's gone blank, who's the like the, oh, I can't think of people to offer advice like to people that like maybe benefit advice, or homeless, homelessness or things like that as well. So really, again, the key word, I think, throughout the whole of the SQE is flexibility here. Citizens Advice Bureau, that’s what I was thinking of. Thank you, Louise, I think she's put that in there as well. So yeah, so it's, you know, a great again, a great approach from the SRA. I mean, I think, yeah, and I really like the idea as well that these learners, these students can use past work as well. So you don't have to, you know, if you're working in a law firm, now, you're going to be meeting some of these competencies to be signed off, not that you're competent, but some of the competencies. And it's great that it's the flexible approach. So, again, one of these things is once you've got your degree or your equivalent degree, you're going working in a law firm or offering your services for on a voluntary basis to get this work experience. And also, alongside that still doing any prep courses or getting prepared for the SQE is a real bonus for I think anyone that as of September that will be taking this particular route.

Adam: Fantastic. So I think we're just drawing close to the end of the session now. So we're just going to answer a few questions from the audience. I do apologise, we won't be able to answer all of them because there have been absolutely loads. If we don't answer your questions, just feel free to email the email address that's under myself. We should be able to pass on those questions and hopefully get a response. So the first question is, are these knowledge courses covered by Student Finance England? And if not, how can students fund it?

Shane: The examinations themselves are not. But there are bursaries available. So some law firms are already putting out there bursaries to cover some of the costs. But it is going to be a case, I suppose one of the benefits is that you can be doing work if this is not remember, these are examinations only. If you take on a prep course, that's in your own sort of initiative to do so. And I would recommend it based upon having seen some of the work that the SRA put into these exams, but you can be working part time or even full time still doing some of your studies in your own time to prepare for the exam, and then taking the exam yourself. But unfortunately unless you can get a bursary or unless you're working in a firm that may be wanting to fund the option for you it is going to be self funded. But the low costs of the exams and again, the flexibility here is that you would be able to save up for these exams, you know, within a short period of time, subjects you what work you're  currently undertaking.

Ben: Yeah, Shane's completely right. And just the old system as well. So the LPC obviously, you know, some people would have their LPC part funded or fully funded by a firm that they'd already secured an offer from the rest of candidates on the LPC would be would be funding it themselves. So with that kind of much higher on average costs. So I think it's the flexibility and the kind of working while each you know, earning while you learn and things like that, that is really going to benefit candidates financially. But definitely look into what bursaries are out there and things that if you do decide, and Shane was right, you know, really think carefully. If you do decide that something like a Masters with built in SQE prep is right for you. Obviously there are different funding options there and if you decide to do an LLB with integrated SQE prep, obviously that would be I'm assuming, you know, subject, the same funding eligibility as any LLB so yeah.

Shane: But that they won't cover the exam costs.

Ben: No, no.

Shane: So you will have to pay the exam costs, which is the important thing. So that's when I say earlier as well looking, invest your time in finding out what these courses offers. Because at the end of it, you're still gonna have to pay your own exam fees on this.

Adam: Fantastic. So we've got another question about people in other countries who might already be qualified in those countries, how would they go about converting their qualification to a UK one?

Ben: So if they're already, you know, a qualified lawyer in an overseas jurisdiction, and they're practicing or they're fully qualified to practice, we process applications for exemption so you can either apply for exemption from SQE one and SQE two, or you can apply for exemption from one of the SQE one assessments because there are two or you can apply just for exemption from SQE two. The application where we're currently dealing with applications from individuals, so individual overseas qualified lawyers, as well as applications that come actually from the jurisdiction itself. So from the overseas jurisdiction, and the best thing for you to do is to is to look on our website at the overseas exemption section with the SQE because it's quite a technical area. But the key thing is that if you if you have qualified overseas, you know, maybe you've already done some practice as a lawyer that there is an option there to apply for an exemption full or partial, but it would be done on a case by case jurisdiction by jurisdiction basis.

Shane: I'll leave that question with the way Ben's answered it because it is a technical area, and the SRA have worked their socks off for months and years at building their web page so please do go and have a look at it all. There's loads of information on there with regards to all of these topic areas. And it's all written and presented in a rather clean and crisp way. So it's not complex to use. So please do as Ben says, go and have a look at that with regards to dual qualification.

Adam: Fantastic. I'm seeing a lot of questions about whether paralegal work counts towards qualifying work experience. Does it count?

Ben: It definitely it definitely can count. I mean, it's if you're providing, if you're working in an organisation, charity, whatever it is, that is providing legal services, and the work that you're doing as long as the work that you're doing, kind of is preparing you for that and exposing you to the competencies that you would need as a practicing solicitor. So look at our statement of solicitor competence for those competencies, obviously, that the skills that you need on the SQE two and SQE one are designed kind of tailored to getting people ready to meet that statement of competency as long as your paralegal work is meeting those requirements then then yeah, it would be QWE.

Shane: Yeah, I think the paralegals or if you're already working in a firm, and you're maybe not getting to have experience in those areas, as well as competencies, definitely speak to your the people that run the practice or run the firm, or other solicitors to see if you can shadow them and see if maybe they can give you some extra work experience or extra advice with regards to QWE. And I've noticed just a very quick question seeing as we're talking about this as someone's completed a placement from Citizens Advice. So again, you'd have to go on to the SRA website just to have a look at what quantifies your experience. And make sure that someone from Citizens Advice during that one year can sign off the information or the detail of what you have done, which is that you've done some legal work that you were competent at it, and any progressions that you took during that period of time as well.

Adam: Fantastic so I think we've got time for just one more question. I've seen a few people asking now, saying that they are a mature student who have already undertaken the LPC. They just want to know if it's worth taking the SQE now so they can qualify us solicitor as someone who's around the age of about 50 or so?

Ben: I've got to wrack my brains about this question.

Shane: If you've already if you've already done the LPC so you that mean that will mean you haven't undertaken a training contract? Or you may have already no you wouldn't have undertaken. My advice is to have a look at the simple answer to this I think would be and kind of maybe half of a cop out is to have a look at what the SRA are offering. Have a look at what your next steps would have been and then consider whether or not the SQE is the right route for you. You'll find I think a lot of law firms and I know that when the SRA did their I want to call them their mock their trial examinations about a couple of years ago law firms that saw really high grades coming back from the SQE one when it was tested. We're automatically offering people jobs from just from their results because it's if you download the mock examination of the SRA website and have a look at that you will be able to see whether you how competent you are at the moment. You have to remember , no the LPC but degrees in particular, teach you theory, the SQE wants to see your theory and how it operates in practice. So it depends on what's included within your LPC depends on what your progression route would be but the likelihood is if you have done your LPC, and you've got those competencies already, that taking the SQE might be a quicker route. Because I think it's the fifth of November the first examination is for SQE one and SQE two off top my head I think is it March or April next year.

Ben: April next year.

Shane: April next year. So you have got an app, you have got a window there where you could potentially still qualify quicker subject to qualifying work experience. So it but it's in the reality is this is an individual choice to try and give advice, without speaking to a candidate I think would be difficult. And that's one of the things we do at the Law Training Centre, we make sure that we're speaking to every individual student, or potential learner so they can see alternative routes as well. So we don't only just do the SQE, we do other things, we want to make sure that every learner has the right path for them. So if you've done your LPC most definitely go and have a look at what is available. Have a look at that mock examination. And it probably would be now the quickest routes for you to be able to qualify. I think that, you know, it really is doing some self research.

Ben: Yeah, I think I think that that's the key. I think I think Shane's right, I mean, I can see a question, which might be the question that that you're asking from someone called Blossom about the you've been doing paralegal work for the past five years, I certainly in terms of the QWE component, that would obviously provided that it meets the requirements would obviously really help it, it would be a kind of personal decision, I think as to whether you wanted to kind of it's not right to phrase it as a step back or whether you would want to go through the SQE having already done the LPC I think it's a personal decision. But there were lots of people who are just to very quickly touch on who were caught in what we're calling kind of transitional arrangements. So if you're kind of for example, you've just started a law degree or you're starting one in September. So if you go to the SQE section of our website and just find the tab which is called transitional arrangements that will set out kind of if you're essentially caught between the two systems, what your options are, you know, whether you stick in the current system or whether you kind of transition over to the SQE which is again, quite technical area, but the guidance is hopefully really clear.

Adam: Fantastic. I think we're gonna have to end it there for today. But thank you Shane and Ben for your valuable input. Apologies to anyone who didn't get their question answered. But like I said, if you just email us at events at Jisc.ac.uk, we can pass those questions on and hopefully get response for you. But thank you for everyone for attending. I hope this was valuable for you. And once again, thank you, Shane and Ben for, for your input.

Transcript ends.

Note on transcripts

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